Ugh… When will all this crap end? And why is it always only Nintendo that gets the short end of the stick in these situations?
I mean, they were getting attacked because a costume change in Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE that happened in the JAPANESE version of the game before it was even released there! Something that for any other developer would have been overlooked and ignored as a simple and regular edit (you know, that thing that happens to every game) was being portrayed and pushed as censorship. Considering that every game ever made has also seen such “censorship” I simply cannot understand how these people manage to rationalize being able to support or play anything.
What has happened to gaming?
No, that was a rhetorical question. I know what happened. It’s the same thing that’s happened with everything else. The ubiquity of the internet and the ease of being able to post any thought at any time with near ZERO repercussions has pretty much killed most peoples thought filters. It just all dribbles out. And since the crazier posts get the most attention there’s now a battle for who can be the most insane.
It’s like living in a worldwide reality TV version of The Jerry Springer Show.
Hahaha, I know which costume it is. It’s Kiria’s idol outfit when she sings the game’s main theme in a cutscene. When they showed that outfit during the E3 demostration that costume was ridiculous. The edit made it look more normal.
I would venture to guess 90% of those who signed that never played a Metroid game, let alone any Nintendo game before. The same kind who demanded Xenoblade be released in the States, but then refused to buy it because Nintendo was “too late” and said they would just get it from the used bin to “teach Nintendo a lesson”… and then we’re the ones whining when used copies skyrocketed in price. And Nintendo knows this. This is why more niche games like Fatal Frame are unfortunately getting digital only releases.
And Quix, Capcom most recently got backlash for removing an ass shot from a character introduction in Street Fighter 5, with numerous YouTube celebrities making long, whiny videos about it. Thing is, it was removed during beta testing, before the game was actually released. And they get slapped with the censorship seal of shame. Gamers have even gone so far as to mod the PC version to “restore the original vision”. Good Lord. But I’m starting to ramble, so I’ll end it here.
I get what you’re saying and I find this topic interesting because it’s one of the few where I disagree with Pietriots, but how does this count as censorship? It’s just a bunch of people, at least a few on them being pissed off fans, protesting the game’s release. The people who don’t actually care about Metroid and just want to antagonize Nintendo are complete scum, but I don’t think it’s as large a portion of that group as you might first think.
I actually got a chance to ask around since the last time this game came up on your site, and I was pretty surprised. At least in my circle, people really are grossed out by this game. It’s the stupid chibi art style. It’s always the first thing someone mentions. If they had just done it like Hunters, this would have never happened. Not playing as Samus is actually interesting, and we want additional lore on the Federation, especially with how Nintendo spent several games building them up as a future enemy of Samus. Squad shooting is a huge turnoff for Metroid players, but it’s not a complete nonstarter. It just can’t be “baby’s first squad shooter”. Of course people will get that impression when Nintendo only shows laughably simple encounters, and again, it’s nothing that can’t be fixed. Nintendo managed to alleviate some of the concerns people had about Star Fox Zero being too easy/slow by showing more levels and explaining that there would be features like a glass cannon mode. They could do the same for Federation Force, but for whatever reason they’re sitting on their hands instead.
Honestly, I buy a lot of Nintendo games on a whim, and more often than not I am pleasantly surprised. Even if the game doesn’t become one of my favorites (Advance Wars, Kid Icarus Uprising, etc) it’s at least enjoyable for a while and I get my money’s worth (Triforce Heroes, Pokken, etc). I’m sure Federation Force won’t be completely horrible, and I’m interested in giving it a chance, but I’m bracing myself for mediocrity and disappointment instead of feeling excited or even neutral toward the game. That’s wrong. That’s not my fault. That is Nintendo’s failure to get a guy who has bought every Metroid game excited about a new Metroid game, and that’s my real point here.
Yeah, gamers need to chill out and stop treating every little thing in video games like its some colossal social justice violation or some shit. This is more of a problem with society as a whole IMO, but regardless it’s a problem for games. On the other hand, Nintendo needs to pull its head out of its ass. Nobody complained about Mario Tennis, or Kirby Canvas 2, or whatever, because we get new “core” games in those franchises regularly. We didn’t wait 8 years without any Mario at all just to go hit the golf course. If we had, people would have rightfully been upset that Nintendo was spending time on that instead of a proper Mario game. It’s not like the desires of Nintendo fans are some huge mystery. We’re still buying (or in many cases abstaining from buying) VC games without cross platform compatibility. I’m not a huge F-Zero fan, but throw those guys a bone every second generation or so, and if you don’t have the manpower, let someone like Shin’en make it. If you won’t give people what they want, eventually they are going to go find it somewhere else. Nintendo is at their best when they innovate, but they are so completely focused on doing things differently that they have completely ignored the value of *iterative design*, which produced most of the greatest games of all time, and has serves as the mark of progression for the complete duration of the entire industry. It’s okay to go back and do Mario 3, but better once in a while, and they aren’t getting that right now. That’s why, although I disagree with the Paper Mario haters, I understand their grievance. Sticker Star had some great ideas, and I think it’s the template for the future of the series, but it had such an ungraceful design. A game like TTYD was a very refined game, having built on the Mario RPGs that came before it. Sticker Star basically started from scratch with new ideas that hopefully have more potential than what TTYD was, but Nimtendo did a bad job of conveying that potential. It wasn’t like SMRPG where the value of the new ideas was very obvious. Players felt restricted in battle, and the game was missing Intelligent Systems’ universally acclaimed writing. Players want to see the writing come back, and they want the battle system to open up a little. Nintendo didn’t show anything in the trailer to even imply that either of those are part of the game. It wouldn’t have been harder than showing what they chose to show, they’re just completely tone deaf, and their absolute worst-in-the-industry marketing threatens to wreck another potentially good game before it’s even properly shown. They have to get better with this. It doesn’t matter how good the NX is. If they can’t convey it’s value or put players’ reservations to rest, their sales will suffer and they’ll have another bad generation.
Federation Force is Nintendo attempting to keep Metroid alive. This petition is a small but vocal number of gamers literally telling Nintendo that if they can’t have Metroid EXACTLY how they want it, no matter whether it’s financially sound or even feasible, then they don’t want it and no one else should be able to have it either. And they had better be careful because they might just get exactly what they’re demanding: Nothing.
Kinda sounds like censorship to me.
Though it’s really more like terrorism but I doubt may people would be willing to admit it. And what tends to be the ultimate outcome of terrorism? Censorship.
Calling this terrorism is…silly, to put things nicely. It’s not even censorship. It’s just a petition. You don’t have to agree with it, but twisting language to create some kind of absurd negative association makes your viewpoint look weak and unsubstantiated. Just call it what it is.
There’s only two things that matter here:
1) Are you EXCITED for the game?
2) How many Metroid games have you beaten?
Most actual Metroid players I’ve talked to are disgusted by the way the game looks, and I’m no exception. Nintendo has done a terrible job of handling this game. I’ll defend Nintendo for a lot of things, but not this.
Like I said, I’m willing to give the game a chance, but it’s in spite of everything Nintendo’s done, not because of it. I don’t blame people for wanting it to be canceled in favor of freeing up developers to make games we actually want. Of course Nintendo obviously won’t do that. All the protest does is create news and red flags for Nintendo’s management/shareholders to throw around the table after this thing flops. Hopefully it will make them aware that the game failed because of the stupid art direction and potentially unsatisfying design, not because “Metroid isn’t popular” or whatever BS keyboard warriors are using to try to scare everyone into blindly supporting this mess.
“Calling this terrorism is…silly, to put things nicely. It’s not even censorship. It’s just a petition.”
The petition is but one small part of it. The harassing videos, flooding Nintendo’s YouTube channel with garbage, sites posting attack articles. Sure, in a vacuum it’s “just” a petition. In reality, it’s part of a much larger attack strategy.
“Most actual Metroid players I’ve talked to are disgusted by the way the game looks, and I’m no exception. Nintendo has done a terrible job of handling this game. I’ll defend Nintendo for a lot of things, but not this.”
Well, as I’ve already said. Most “actual” (rolls eyes) Metroid fans have done a terrible job in convincing Nintendo that they are willing to actually buy Metroid games in large enough numbers to make continued production possible. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if Metroid sold better.
“Like I said, I’m willing to give the game a chance, but it’s in spite of everything Nintendo’s done, not because of it. I don’t blame people for wanting it to be canceled in favor of freeing up developers to make games we actually want.”
You wouldn’t be getting MP4 if this game wasn’t in development. So… what’s the issue?
“Of course Nintendo obviously won’t do that. All the protest does is create news and red flags for Nintendo’s management/shareholders to throw around the table after this thing flops.”
And they’ll have every right to. The concerted smear campaign over the game from its first revel has been absolutely disgusting. Why would anyone want to pander to people who are so petty and myopic?
“Hopefully it will make them aware that the game failed because of the stupid art direction and potentially unsatisfying design, not because “Metroid isn’t popular” or whatever BS keyboard warriors are using to try to scare everyone into blindly supporting this mess.”
Metroid already isn’t popular. Again, why do you think we’re having this discussion? It’s why there hasn’t been a Metroid on the 3DS or the Wii U. It would simply be too expensive to make to the demanding specifications of modern gamers. It’s a dying franchise because costs have simply risen too much.
I’m not saying support it. I’m not saying that at all. But this mindless HATING of the game will ABSOLUTELY drive Nintendo away from wanting to make more in the future. Voice your dissatisfaction, but be adult about it. This here, this is just shrieking to shriek.
I’ve been a fan of Metroid forever, since Super Metroid. Am I getting Federation Force? No. I’m not into multiplayer gaming so it’s not on my list just for that. Am I running up and down the street SCREAMING about how it’s not what I want? Nope. It’s not my place to attack something that obviously isn’t even aimed at me. It’s a multiplayer Metroid after all where you don’t even play as Samus. It’s most definitely NOT aimed at the existing Metroid fanbase.
But go on, continue to throw your tantrum and scream about what you want completely oblivious to the fact that you’re only making it harder for Nintendo to do just that. If you want another Metroid you should hope Federation Force sells well. Again, you don’t have to buy it or even support it but by actively trying to drive away people who are interested in it and would buy it you’re showing that you’re not a Metroid fan. You’re a “you” fan and only care about what you want to the detriment of anyone and everyone else.
Don’t go screaming at Nintendo if this game flops and they shelve Metroid for lack of sales. You’re helping to ensure that happens.
I generally try to be civil, but sometimes you have to communicate at a lower level to get your point across to someone. There’s just no nice to say that you’re a frustrated fanboy who is full of shit. I’m not going to do the whole “pick apart your post line by line” thing. It’s incredibly lame, a chore to read, and in your case, is full of baseless speculation and petty derogatory jabs. Sorry, but I’m above that. I’ll call you an idiot directly and I’ll do it in fewer words.
I’m sick of the BS argument of “hurr durr if you don’t buy every game and it doesn’t sell five million copies you have no right to complain”. I’m not even going to dignify it. Grow up. Read a book on economics. Start a software business. Do whatever it takes to get your brain off of Reddit and into the real world.
Seriously, I want to know: who are you and what do you actually know about writing software or operating a business that makes software? You sure have a lot to say about the costs of development and how corporations will react to feedback, sorry, “terrorism”. How much of that is based off experience, and how much of it is you being an angry little fanboy? Why is it so difficult for you to see how stupid your argument is? Everyone telling Nintendo that Federation Force looks like shit will ensure that Nintendo drops Metroid? Are you crazy? So I guess we’re done with Animal Crossing since everyone hated that party game. Yeah, no more Paper Mario because the internet blew up all over Sticker Star – OH WAIT. No more consoles I guess, because the WiiU was a huge failure and barely sold X units – OH WAIT.
I’m done with you. I’ll discuss and debate with anyone else who actually wants to talk about the game and why things happened the way they did, because it’s interesting, and there are some really passionate people on this site who give me new ways to look at a lot of games. I refuse to waste any more time on fanboy crap, though.
And this is why I don’t engage online anymore. This right here. People who can’t see the forest for the trees. You’re so absolutely sure that you’re right that no one can disagree with you without it becoming a personal attack. You literally ignored half of what I said and rewrote the rest of it in your head to fit your narrative. There’s simply no way to have a discussion because you’re right and everyone else is wrong.
I actually started to explain to you, yet again, why you are wrong but I deleted it when I decided that it would be pointless because you’ll just ignore it, cherry-pick what you wanted, and then warp the rest around this idea that if I’m not with you then I’m against you. The massive amounts of emotional reactionary-ism in your last response shows that there is no discussion that can be had here. You’re unwilling, or unable to, for whatever reason.
Learn to step back and disengage. You’ll be a lot happier, a lot less angry, and a lot more interesting to interact with. Right now though… That whole you’re done thing? Yeah, you actually are.
Yes, GoldenJoe, this petition is an attempt at censorship. Just because they do not have the power to censor the game out of existence, doesn’t mean the intent is not there. Like, just think about it.
What do they want? The game to be cancelled. Not modified. Not even subjectively made “better.” Just cancelled.
Why? They don’t like they way it looks. They don’t like the art-style.
That’s it. They want the work of 70+ people and the producer of Metroid Prime’s latest game to be CANCELLED because they don’t like the artstyle. That’s censorship, bro. Just because Nintendo is still going to do it and they won’t give one whit to the rantings of angry fans who are one spergout away from going to a GameStop with a sharpie, doesn’t mean they don’t wish something didn’t exist because they don’t like it.
i really don’t understand the hate that’s levied against the game, as someone that only has recently played the prime series when they released the collection on the Eshop last years feburary everything that ive seen out of federation force screams metroid prime to the nth degree.
i mean the artsyle is kinda chibi i guess but is a change of artsyle really a reason to rage against the game for? every other nintendo series has a wide array of artsyles and i don’t see nearly the amount of outrage for other series. quite frankly i wouldn’t be surprised if nintendo decides to shelve metroid after this game, just like with other M the loud mouths freak out over something that’s really not that big of deal and just drive them away from the franchise, they pick something they dont like make it a much bigger deal then what it really is and stamp their feet like children threaten them and scare them away from the franchise.
at the end of the day im more of a 2d metroid fan and i hope federation force does well despite the tantrums from so called “metroid” fans, unlike them i can understand the game isnt quite for me and honestly thats okay hell maybe ill like it. splatoon pulled me in so much and i cant stand playing games online for more then a couple of days.
and yes this petition most definitely is gamers practicing censorship, which isn’t surprising. gamers can be among the biggest pile of hypocrites in the world ive ever seen.
GoldenJoe, we do appreciate it, most of the time, when you comment. However, between Deguello, Bill Aurion, Pro Daisy and myself we’ve noticed you treat everything god-damn seriously and you think people are attacking you when they comment and argue your points. Between your comments on Deg’s “Stuck between the middle” post and the ones I am seeing now, we appreciate discussion, but your attitude is starting to cross several lines. While you are not in the realm of shit-poster, this type of behavior is something we’ve seen on Nintendo World Report and NeoGAF. I can count so many people that have left the former forums based on your behavior alone.
Also, while Grubdog is one of our most prolific contributors for this site, he like ourselves have everyday lives and this site, at most, is a hobby we enjoy. If you decide to use our lack of recent contribution as ammo that we are thin-skinned when we question your comments, then go right the hell ahead. We don’t care, but we start caring when you start attacking other people for supposed attacks when nothing of the sort happened.
We may not be a forum with a proper Admin or Moderation system, and we have no right to ban you, but knock your attitude off. You should know by now when you comment others will see it and question you. If you don’t get it, then this site is not for you.
I think your attitude is crap too, Matto, but you don’t see me whining about it in thread after thread. If you or anyone gives me BS, I’m going to call you on it. If you can’t handle that, then it’s your problem. Get a moderation system, or just don’t read my posts. I don’t care if you disagree with me or don’t like my attitude. Go have kids if you want to tell people how to act.
Just want to put the focus back on the game for a minute. I went back and played Metroid Prime Hunters and the “realistic” art style just gives me a headache on that small screen. It’s one of the blurriest, most uncomfortable games I’ve ever played. I totally understand the chibi art style from a presentation standpoint, even if it’s not super aesthetically pleasing. This kind of “gameplay first” choice should be something Metroid fans can appreciate. Like a lot of handheld games it’s going to have a different feel in your hands. Stoneman makes a good point too, look at the wide variety of art styles in Mario and Zelda. The reason is usually just to make their concepts clear, and the gameplay more visible. Metroid has every right to ascend to this higher realm of acceptance.
As someone who would sell their soul for a new 2D Metroid, this game doesn’t appeal to me. I have accepted that. As someone who just wants some online multiplayer, and more lore in the (infinitely interesting) Metroid Prime universe, it does appeal to me. I will happily be one of those people in the interest of getting my friends to play the game and discover Metroid. Look at it from the developer’s perspective. Sakamoto has moved on to better things with Tomodachi Life and Miitomo, he’s actually making millions of people happy. Is he really going to come back to this cesspool of hatred? Maybe seeing people have fun with Federation Force could spark that feeling again in somebody. Giving the series impossible standards to meet is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The situation with Metroid is obviously dire, but we don’t have to make it worse. I just really, really hope we see another Metroid project soon so this discussion doesn’t have to happen. Timing was by far their biggest fuckup with this game which ultimately led to this environment.
Hopefully we can look back on all this and laugh some day.
See, this is all I’m looking for. A different perspective that makes sense.
Thinking back on Hunters, I can’t actually remember any humanoid enemies aside from the other Hunters, which are shown infrequently and more easily identified by color than shape. It’s true that the chibi thing is a common solution for Japanese devs when they want to have a certain amount of detail in a low resolution setting (add Golden Sun to Stoneman’s point). I think it’s worth noting that they find it more aesthetically acceptable than the west does. With that in mind, I still don’t really see the point of it. It’s not like the soldiers will have facial expressions or whatever, so maybe it is a purely aesthetic choice.
Unrealistic expectations is a good point. I agree that it’s easy to go in with some crazy expectation the new Metroid has to be as timeless as Super Metroid or Metroid Prime, and that there’s more to meeting that expectation than the quality of the game itself. I kind of disagree that we shouldn’t expect a new Metroid (not this spinoff) to be on par with those games though. Without significant technological barriers and 20 years of additional experience, it is reasonable to expect games to get better, at least in small ways. The DS is my favorite console because many developers treated it as a kind of “Super Nintendo 2”. You saw games like The World Ends With You, and Space Invaders Extreme 2, which built on the designs of games of that era and improved them in fantastic ways. I personally find these design changes fascinating.
I think the “anti-protest” movement for this game is equally crazy as the people doing the protesting. Neither group is going to change a single thing in the slightest. At most, Nintendo’s going to see the hate for the game, go “oh maybe we shouldn’t make Metroid cute next time”, then boom, maybe the next handheld Metroid is the safe bet – a 2D Metroid which is practically guaranteed to do well. Maybe it’s just Federation Force again, but better. Maybe Nintendo is just completely tone deaf and not a word of criticism ever makes it out of the English language. Metroid isn’t ending, but like Grub says, it wouldn’t be a bad thing for the game to become more popular. Maybe this is Timmy’s first Metroid by design, I don’t know. I just don’t get why Nintendo doesn’t do what they did for Star Fox and make an effort to show the haters why they’re wrong, and why we should be hyped for the game. It’s a very reasonable question.
Pietriots 
Thought this censorship thing was over already.
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Nope, people are still pissy about it Grub.
There is also a petition for the new Paper Mario game too.
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Ugh… When will all this crap end? And why is it always only Nintendo that gets the short end of the stick in these situations?
I mean, they were getting attacked because a costume change in Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE that happened in the JAPANESE version of the game before it was even released there! Something that for any other developer would have been overlooked and ignored as a simple and regular edit (you know, that thing that happens to every game) was being portrayed and pushed as censorship. Considering that every game ever made has also seen such “censorship” I simply cannot understand how these people manage to rationalize being able to support or play anything.
What has happened to gaming?
No, that was a rhetorical question. I know what happened. It’s the same thing that’s happened with everything else. The ubiquity of the internet and the ease of being able to post any thought at any time with near ZERO repercussions has pretty much killed most peoples thought filters. It just all dribbles out. And since the crazier posts get the most attention there’s now a battle for who can be the most insane.
It’s like living in a worldwide reality TV version of The Jerry Springer Show.
I just wish I could change the channel…
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Hahaha, I know which costume it is. It’s Kiria’s idol outfit when she sings the game’s main theme in a cutscene. When they showed that outfit during the E3 demostration that costume was ridiculous. The edit made it look more normal.
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I would venture to guess 90% of those who signed that never played a Metroid game, let alone any Nintendo game before. The same kind who demanded Xenoblade be released in the States, but then refused to buy it because Nintendo was “too late” and said they would just get it from the used bin to “teach Nintendo a lesson”… and then we’re the ones whining when used copies skyrocketed in price. And Nintendo knows this. This is why more niche games like Fatal Frame are unfortunately getting digital only releases.
And Quix, Capcom most recently got backlash for removing an ass shot from a character introduction in Street Fighter 5, with numerous YouTube celebrities making long, whiny videos about it. Thing is, it was removed during beta testing, before the game was actually released. And they get slapped with the censorship seal of shame. Gamers have even gone so far as to mod the PC version to “restore the original vision”. Good Lord. But I’m starting to ramble, so I’ll end it here.
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Oops, that “we’re”up there was supposed to be a “were”. Stupid autocorrect.
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I saw this infantile, whinetastic video on paper mario recently that reminded me of this post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
Whatever dysentery/space madness is floating around the gaming water right now, hope it passes soon.
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Oh man I saw that video. Never heard of this guy before, but the puppet thing is really weird. There are some sick adults who never actually grew up.
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I get what you’re saying and I find this topic interesting because it’s one of the few where I disagree with Pietriots, but how does this count as censorship? It’s just a bunch of people, at least a few on them being pissed off fans, protesting the game’s release. The people who don’t actually care about Metroid and just want to antagonize Nintendo are complete scum, but I don’t think it’s as large a portion of that group as you might first think.
I actually got a chance to ask around since the last time this game came up on your site, and I was pretty surprised. At least in my circle, people really are grossed out by this game. It’s the stupid chibi art style. It’s always the first thing someone mentions. If they had just done it like Hunters, this would have never happened. Not playing as Samus is actually interesting, and we want additional lore on the Federation, especially with how Nintendo spent several games building them up as a future enemy of Samus. Squad shooting is a huge turnoff for Metroid players, but it’s not a complete nonstarter. It just can’t be “baby’s first squad shooter”. Of course people will get that impression when Nintendo only shows laughably simple encounters, and again, it’s nothing that can’t be fixed. Nintendo managed to alleviate some of the concerns people had about Star Fox Zero being too easy/slow by showing more levels and explaining that there would be features like a glass cannon mode. They could do the same for Federation Force, but for whatever reason they’re sitting on their hands instead.
Honestly, I buy a lot of Nintendo games on a whim, and more often than not I am pleasantly surprised. Even if the game doesn’t become one of my favorites (Advance Wars, Kid Icarus Uprising, etc) it’s at least enjoyable for a while and I get my money’s worth (Triforce Heroes, Pokken, etc). I’m sure Federation Force won’t be completely horrible, and I’m interested in giving it a chance, but I’m bracing myself for mediocrity and disappointment instead of feeling excited or even neutral toward the game. That’s wrong. That’s not my fault. That is Nintendo’s failure to get a guy who has bought every Metroid game excited about a new Metroid game, and that’s my real point here.
Yeah, gamers need to chill out and stop treating every little thing in video games like its some colossal social justice violation or some shit. This is more of a problem with society as a whole IMO, but regardless it’s a problem for games. On the other hand, Nintendo needs to pull its head out of its ass. Nobody complained about Mario Tennis, or Kirby Canvas 2, or whatever, because we get new “core” games in those franchises regularly. We didn’t wait 8 years without any Mario at all just to go hit the golf course. If we had, people would have rightfully been upset that Nintendo was spending time on that instead of a proper Mario game. It’s not like the desires of Nintendo fans are some huge mystery. We’re still buying (or in many cases abstaining from buying) VC games without cross platform compatibility. I’m not a huge F-Zero fan, but throw those guys a bone every second generation or so, and if you don’t have the manpower, let someone like Shin’en make it. If you won’t give people what they want, eventually they are going to go find it somewhere else. Nintendo is at their best when they innovate, but they are so completely focused on doing things differently that they have completely ignored the value of *iterative design*, which produced most of the greatest games of all time, and has serves as the mark of progression for the complete duration of the entire industry. It’s okay to go back and do Mario 3, but better once in a while, and they aren’t getting that right now. That’s why, although I disagree with the Paper Mario haters, I understand their grievance. Sticker Star had some great ideas, and I think it’s the template for the future of the series, but it had such an ungraceful design. A game like TTYD was a very refined game, having built on the Mario RPGs that came before it. Sticker Star basically started from scratch with new ideas that hopefully have more potential than what TTYD was, but Nimtendo did a bad job of conveying that potential. It wasn’t like SMRPG where the value of the new ideas was very obvious. Players felt restricted in battle, and the game was missing Intelligent Systems’ universally acclaimed writing. Players want to see the writing come back, and they want the battle system to open up a little. Nintendo didn’t show anything in the trailer to even imply that either of those are part of the game. It wouldn’t have been harder than showing what they chose to show, they’re just completely tone deaf, and their absolute worst-in-the-industry marketing threatens to wreck another potentially good game before it’s even properly shown. They have to get better with this. It doesn’t matter how good the NX is. If they can’t convey it’s value or put players’ reservations to rest, their sales will suffer and they’ll have another bad generation.
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Federation Force is Nintendo attempting to keep Metroid alive. This petition is a small but vocal number of gamers literally telling Nintendo that if they can’t have Metroid EXACTLY how they want it, no matter whether it’s financially sound or even feasible, then they don’t want it and no one else should be able to have it either. And they had better be careful because they might just get exactly what they’re demanding: Nothing.
Kinda sounds like censorship to me.
Though it’s really more like terrorism but I doubt may people would be willing to admit it. And what tends to be the ultimate outcome of terrorism? Censorship.
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Calling this terrorism is…silly, to put things nicely. It’s not even censorship. It’s just a petition. You don’t have to agree with it, but twisting language to create some kind of absurd negative association makes your viewpoint look weak and unsubstantiated. Just call it what it is.
There’s only two things that matter here:
1) Are you EXCITED for the game?
2) How many Metroid games have you beaten?
Most actual Metroid players I’ve talked to are disgusted by the way the game looks, and I’m no exception. Nintendo has done a terrible job of handling this game. I’ll defend Nintendo for a lot of things, but not this.
Like I said, I’m willing to give the game a chance, but it’s in spite of everything Nintendo’s done, not because of it. I don’t blame people for wanting it to be canceled in favor of freeing up developers to make games we actually want. Of course Nintendo obviously won’t do that. All the protest does is create news and red flags for Nintendo’s management/shareholders to throw around the table after this thing flops. Hopefully it will make them aware that the game failed because of the stupid art direction and potentially unsatisfying design, not because “Metroid isn’t popular” or whatever BS keyboard warriors are using to try to scare everyone into blindly supporting this mess.
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“Calling this terrorism is…silly, to put things nicely. It’s not even censorship. It’s just a petition.”
The petition is but one small part of it. The harassing videos, flooding Nintendo’s YouTube channel with garbage, sites posting attack articles. Sure, in a vacuum it’s “just” a petition. In reality, it’s part of a much larger attack strategy.
“Most actual Metroid players I’ve talked to are disgusted by the way the game looks, and I’m no exception. Nintendo has done a terrible job of handling this game. I’ll defend Nintendo for a lot of things, but not this.”
Well, as I’ve already said. Most “actual” (rolls eyes) Metroid fans have done a terrible job in convincing Nintendo that they are willing to actually buy Metroid games in large enough numbers to make continued production possible. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if Metroid sold better.
“Like I said, I’m willing to give the game a chance, but it’s in spite of everything Nintendo’s done, not because of it. I don’t blame people for wanting it to be canceled in favor of freeing up developers to make games we actually want.”
You wouldn’t be getting MP4 if this game wasn’t in development. So… what’s the issue?
“Of course Nintendo obviously won’t do that. All the protest does is create news and red flags for Nintendo’s management/shareholders to throw around the table after this thing flops.”
And they’ll have every right to. The concerted smear campaign over the game from its first revel has been absolutely disgusting. Why would anyone want to pander to people who are so petty and myopic?
“Hopefully it will make them aware that the game failed because of the stupid art direction and potentially unsatisfying design, not because “Metroid isn’t popular” or whatever BS keyboard warriors are using to try to scare everyone into blindly supporting this mess.”
Metroid already isn’t popular. Again, why do you think we’re having this discussion? It’s why there hasn’t been a Metroid on the 3DS or the Wii U. It would simply be too expensive to make to the demanding specifications of modern gamers. It’s a dying franchise because costs have simply risen too much.
I’m not saying support it. I’m not saying that at all. But this mindless HATING of the game will ABSOLUTELY drive Nintendo away from wanting to make more in the future. Voice your dissatisfaction, but be adult about it. This here, this is just shrieking to shriek.
I’ve been a fan of Metroid forever, since Super Metroid. Am I getting Federation Force? No. I’m not into multiplayer gaming so it’s not on my list just for that. Am I running up and down the street SCREAMING about how it’s not what I want? Nope. It’s not my place to attack something that obviously isn’t even aimed at me. It’s a multiplayer Metroid after all where you don’t even play as Samus. It’s most definitely NOT aimed at the existing Metroid fanbase.
But go on, continue to throw your tantrum and scream about what you want completely oblivious to the fact that you’re only making it harder for Nintendo to do just that. If you want another Metroid you should hope Federation Force sells well. Again, you don’t have to buy it or even support it but by actively trying to drive away people who are interested in it and would buy it you’re showing that you’re not a Metroid fan. You’re a “you” fan and only care about what you want to the detriment of anyone and everyone else.
Don’t go screaming at Nintendo if this game flops and they shelve Metroid for lack of sales. You’re helping to ensure that happens.
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I generally try to be civil, but sometimes you have to communicate at a lower level to get your point across to someone. There’s just no nice to say that you’re a frustrated fanboy who is full of shit. I’m not going to do the whole “pick apart your post line by line” thing. It’s incredibly lame, a chore to read, and in your case, is full of baseless speculation and petty derogatory jabs. Sorry, but I’m above that. I’ll call you an idiot directly and I’ll do it in fewer words.
I’m sick of the BS argument of “hurr durr if you don’t buy every game and it doesn’t sell five million copies you have no right to complain”. I’m not even going to dignify it. Grow up. Read a book on economics. Start a software business. Do whatever it takes to get your brain off of Reddit and into the real world.
Seriously, I want to know: who are you and what do you actually know about writing software or operating a business that makes software? You sure have a lot to say about the costs of development and how corporations will react to feedback, sorry, “terrorism”. How much of that is based off experience, and how much of it is you being an angry little fanboy? Why is it so difficult for you to see how stupid your argument is? Everyone telling Nintendo that Federation Force looks like shit will ensure that Nintendo drops Metroid? Are you crazy? So I guess we’re done with Animal Crossing since everyone hated that party game. Yeah, no more Paper Mario because the internet blew up all over Sticker Star – OH WAIT. No more consoles I guess, because the WiiU was a huge failure and barely sold X units – OH WAIT.
I’m done with you. I’ll discuss and debate with anyone else who actually wants to talk about the game and why things happened the way they did, because it’s interesting, and there are some really passionate people on this site who give me new ways to look at a lot of games. I refuse to waste any more time on fanboy crap, though.
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And this is why I don’t engage online anymore. This right here. People who can’t see the forest for the trees. You’re so absolutely sure that you’re right that no one can disagree with you without it becoming a personal attack. You literally ignored half of what I said and rewrote the rest of it in your head to fit your narrative. There’s simply no way to have a discussion because you’re right and everyone else is wrong.
I actually started to explain to you, yet again, why you are wrong but I deleted it when I decided that it would be pointless because you’ll just ignore it, cherry-pick what you wanted, and then warp the rest around this idea that if I’m not with you then I’m against you. The massive amounts of emotional reactionary-ism in your last response shows that there is no discussion that can be had here. You’re unwilling, or unable to, for whatever reason.
Learn to step back and disengage. You’ll be a lot happier, a lot less angry, and a lot more interesting to interact with. Right now though… That whole you’re done thing? Yeah, you actually are.
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Yes, GoldenJoe, this petition is an attempt at censorship. Just because they do not have the power to censor the game out of existence, doesn’t mean the intent is not there. Like, just think about it.
What do they want? The game to be cancelled. Not modified. Not even subjectively made “better.” Just cancelled.
Why? They don’t like they way it looks. They don’t like the art-style.
That’s it. They want the work of 70+ people and the producer of Metroid Prime’s latest game to be CANCELLED because they don’t like the artstyle. That’s censorship, bro. Just because Nintendo is still going to do it and they won’t give one whit to the rantings of angry fans who are one spergout away from going to a GameStop with a sharpie, doesn’t mean they don’t wish something didn’t exist because they don’t like it.
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i really don’t understand the hate that’s levied against the game, as someone that only has recently played the prime series when they released the collection on the Eshop last years feburary everything that ive seen out of federation force screams metroid prime to the nth degree.
i mean the artsyle is kinda chibi i guess but is a change of artsyle really a reason to rage against the game for? every other nintendo series has a wide array of artsyles and i don’t see nearly the amount of outrage for other series. quite frankly i wouldn’t be surprised if nintendo decides to shelve metroid after this game, just like with other M the loud mouths freak out over something that’s really not that big of deal and just drive them away from the franchise, they pick something they dont like make it a much bigger deal then what it really is and stamp their feet like children threaten them and scare them away from the franchise.
at the end of the day im more of a 2d metroid fan and i hope federation force does well despite the tantrums from so called “metroid” fans, unlike them i can understand the game isnt quite for me and honestly thats okay hell maybe ill like it. splatoon pulled me in so much and i cant stand playing games online for more then a couple of days.
and yes this petition most definitely is gamers practicing censorship, which isn’t surprising. gamers can be among the biggest pile of hypocrites in the world ive ever seen.
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GoldenJoe, we do appreciate it, most of the time, when you comment. However, between Deguello, Bill Aurion, Pro Daisy and myself we’ve noticed you treat everything god-damn seriously and you think people are attacking you when they comment and argue your points. Between your comments on Deg’s “Stuck between the middle” post and the ones I am seeing now, we appreciate discussion, but your attitude is starting to cross several lines. While you are not in the realm of shit-poster, this type of behavior is something we’ve seen on Nintendo World Report and NeoGAF. I can count so many people that have left the former forums based on your behavior alone.
Also, while Grubdog is one of our most prolific contributors for this site, he like ourselves have everyday lives and this site, at most, is a hobby we enjoy. If you decide to use our lack of recent contribution as ammo that we are thin-skinned when we question your comments, then go right the hell ahead. We don’t care, but we start caring when you start attacking other people for supposed attacks when nothing of the sort happened.
We may not be a forum with a proper Admin or Moderation system, and we have no right to ban you, but knock your attitude off. You should know by now when you comment others will see it and question you. If you don’t get it, then this site is not for you.
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I think your attitude is crap too, Matto, but you don’t see me whining about it in thread after thread. If you or anyone gives me BS, I’m going to call you on it. If you can’t handle that, then it’s your problem. Get a moderation system, or just don’t read my posts. I don’t care if you disagree with me or don’t like my attitude. Go have kids if you want to tell people how to act.
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Just want to put the focus back on the game for a minute. I went back and played Metroid Prime Hunters and the “realistic” art style just gives me a headache on that small screen. It’s one of the blurriest, most uncomfortable games I’ve ever played. I totally understand the chibi art style from a presentation standpoint, even if it’s not super aesthetically pleasing. This kind of “gameplay first” choice should be something Metroid fans can appreciate. Like a lot of handheld games it’s going to have a different feel in your hands. Stoneman makes a good point too, look at the wide variety of art styles in Mario and Zelda. The reason is usually just to make their concepts clear, and the gameplay more visible. Metroid has every right to ascend to this higher realm of acceptance.
As someone who would sell their soul for a new 2D Metroid, this game doesn’t appeal to me. I have accepted that. As someone who just wants some online multiplayer, and more lore in the (infinitely interesting) Metroid Prime universe, it does appeal to me. I will happily be one of those people in the interest of getting my friends to play the game and discover Metroid. Look at it from the developer’s perspective. Sakamoto has moved on to better things with Tomodachi Life and Miitomo, he’s actually making millions of people happy. Is he really going to come back to this cesspool of hatred? Maybe seeing people have fun with Federation Force could spark that feeling again in somebody. Giving the series impossible standards to meet is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The situation with Metroid is obviously dire, but we don’t have to make it worse. I just really, really hope we see another Metroid project soon so this discussion doesn’t have to happen. Timing was by far their biggest fuckup with this game which ultimately led to this environment.
Hopefully we can look back on all this and laugh some day.
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See, this is all I’m looking for. A different perspective that makes sense.
Thinking back on Hunters, I can’t actually remember any humanoid enemies aside from the other Hunters, which are shown infrequently and more easily identified by color than shape. It’s true that the chibi thing is a common solution for Japanese devs when they want to have a certain amount of detail in a low resolution setting (add Golden Sun to Stoneman’s point). I think it’s worth noting that they find it more aesthetically acceptable than the west does. With that in mind, I still don’t really see the point of it. It’s not like the soldiers will have facial expressions or whatever, so maybe it is a purely aesthetic choice.
Unrealistic expectations is a good point. I agree that it’s easy to go in with some crazy expectation the new Metroid has to be as timeless as Super Metroid or Metroid Prime, and that there’s more to meeting that expectation than the quality of the game itself. I kind of disagree that we shouldn’t expect a new Metroid (not this spinoff) to be on par with those games though. Without significant technological barriers and 20 years of additional experience, it is reasonable to expect games to get better, at least in small ways. The DS is my favorite console because many developers treated it as a kind of “Super Nintendo 2”. You saw games like The World Ends With You, and Space Invaders Extreme 2, which built on the designs of games of that era and improved them in fantastic ways. I personally find these design changes fascinating.
I think the “anti-protest” movement for this game is equally crazy as the people doing the protesting. Neither group is going to change a single thing in the slightest. At most, Nintendo’s going to see the hate for the game, go “oh maybe we shouldn’t make Metroid cute next time”, then boom, maybe the next handheld Metroid is the safe bet – a 2D Metroid which is practically guaranteed to do well. Maybe it’s just Federation Force again, but better. Maybe Nintendo is just completely tone deaf and not a word of criticism ever makes it out of the English language. Metroid isn’t ending, but like Grub says, it wouldn’t be a bad thing for the game to become more popular. Maybe this is Timmy’s first Metroid by design, I don’t know. I just don’t get why Nintendo doesn’t do what they did for Star Fox and make an effort to show the haters why they’re wrong, and why we should be hyped for the game. It’s a very reasonable question.
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Okay, which one of you made this gem? Deg?
https://www.change.org/p/all-pikmin-fans-around-the-globe-petition-for-nintendo-to-cancel-pikmin-3ds
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Yep, it was Deg. I’m bullying him into writing up his confession.
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